What is OK for a Christian to eat and drink? Is alcohol, for instance evil in every case of consumption, or is it permissible on certain occasions? Did Jesus make fermented wine at the wedding feast, or was it just grape juice? What did Paul mean when he told Timothy to “take a little wine for thy stomach’s sake?”
The issue of drinking and the Christian is a hot topic of debate (at least in some circles). There is no question that alcohol can be abused and what rusults come about because of that abuse. But the question remains, is alcohol inherently evil? Is dirt evil? Is getting dirty a sin? It is if your mother told you not to play in the dirt while wearing your good Sunday clothes. But what if it is a work day and you have to do some yard work? Is getting dirty a sin at that point?
Is the consumption of alcohol always a sin, or are there cultural, religious or dietary exceptions? Most importantly, what does the Bible say?
What about food? The Seventh Day Adventist’s should have a lot of comments on this subject. Is meat neccessary in a society like ours? Is there anything better than a good steak? What does the Bible have to say about it?
Don’t automatically assume what I believe. Don’t assume, either, that by writing this I think every Christian should just gather the kids and neighbors, head down to the lake, pop open a six-pack of Bud, and grill pork chops and steaks. Really, it doesn’t matter what I think, but what God says. If our actions are guided only by the thoughts of others, then we are not living a life of grace, but of legalism. Prudence, wisdom, and spiritual maturity should factor into our actions, not the thought of “who will see me?” Of course a lot more could be said, but what are your thoughts?
Is the topic of what Christians can or can’t drink a worthy question to spend our time discussing? Wouldn’t we do better to discuss how to do what Christians are called to do, which is love (agape) people? For example: Since Christians are commanded not to refuse anyone who asks us for something, is it ok to say “no” to the homeless because we are afraid/know we will be taken advantage of? Is it ok to have gay friends? Should one’s Christian ministry come first, or one’s family?
There’s my two cents.
I like the look & feel of your blog!
Thank you for your comment. Yes, it is worth our time, but only if it is an issue that causes division. There are those in the body of Christ who do not believe the same as others with regards to food and drink. The Gospel is not about food and drink. But the Bible does address these things, and for that reason, and for the sake of the Gospel, we should discuss what is legalistic, and what is not.
Thanks for your two cents…I needed the change
I agree. I think this is an important subject for exactly the reason that you say. It does cause division. though perhaps if we had a more healthy attitude in regards to how we are supposed to go about living together as Christians and encourage each other towards spiritual maturity it would not be such an issue, since people would encourage each other to pray and grow because of their love for God rather then condemning practices in ways that put the focus in the wrong places. To answer the big question of your post, I think that any attempt to turn all of the wine in the New Testament into grape juice would be contrived. I believe Jesus drank wine. I think people who condemn drinking in all circumstances need to be very careful. That said, I’ve never tasted alcohol. I don’t care for the smell, it generally appears to be a waste of money, I don’t want my inhibitions lowered, and I have Christian friends and family that would look down on it, and the experience of trying something new would in no way be worth anything hurting those relationships.
I agree. I think this is an important subject for exactly the reason that you say. It does cause division. though perhaps if we had a more healthy attitude in regards to how we are supposed to go about living together as Christians and encourage each other towards spiritual maturity it would not be such an issue, since people would encourage each other to pray and grow because of their love for God rather then condemning practices in ways that put the focus in the wrong places. To answer the big question of your post, I think that any attempt to turn all of the wine in the New Testament into grape juice would be contrived. I believe Jesus drank wine. I think people who condemn drinking in all circumstances need to be very careful. That said, I’ve never tasted alcohol. I don’t care for the smell, it generally appears to be a waste of money, I don’t want my inhibitions lowered, and I have Christian friends and family that would look down on it, and the experience of trying something new would in no way be worth anything hurting those relationships.
+1
Thanks, Larry. I’m sorry your comment didn’t get posted earlier, but it originally went to the “spam” file. Sometimes WordPress does that based on the type of website or user name, or something. Anyway, when I go through the spam I am careful to look for real comments, not just stuff trying to promote Viagra or web design. I hope you understand
But again, thank you for your comment. I do agree that alcohol is dangerous and should probably be off limits to most people. But on the other hand, as I think you would agree, what I feel should not give me an excuse to make Scripture say something it doesn’t.
And by the way, have a great Thanksgiving!
That’s no good that his comment went to spam.
I wonder if it would definitely go there if you mention Viagra in a comment. As in, like, Viagra, Viagra, Viagra?
So now if this doesn’t appear, I’ll be wondering if it’s because it’s a stupid troll-like comment that has been (deservedly) deleted, or because it got caught up in the spam filter.
Although if I really wanted this to go to spam, I really should post a few Viagra-type links. Well, maybe that’s going a bit too far.
Sorry, you weren’t spam material, evidently
Re. alcohol and the Bible: I’ve heard the theory about them drinking non-fermented “wine” before. But wouldn’t that just be mentioned as “fruit juice”? Or didn’t they have that term back then?
That would seem to go to the heart of the matter on that topic/sub-topic. Did the Biblical Greek language have a separate word or phrase for “fruit juice”, as opposed to wine? Do any Biblical Greek documents, from their context, ever refer to “non-fermented wine”?
Just wondering.
γλεῦκος (gleukos) is the closest I can find in the Greek. That being said, the only example of it being used is in the 2nd chapter of Acts when Peter and the other disciples were being accused of drunkenness.
Overall, most all wine/juice of that period, according to historians, had some alcohol content. Keep in mind that unless the juice was freshly pressed, keeping it alcohol-free would be a problem. There was no refrigeration, and pasteurization had not yet been invented.
שֵׁכָר (shekar) is a Hebrew word that specifically refers to intoxicating drink, as opposed to your garden-variety wine. But as for the Greek language, I can’t find any words that were used to specifically point out or label one wine “alcohol-free” and another “__ proof.”
Usually, it is the context of the passage that makes the difference. I hope this helps.
Thanks very much for that.
It’s a question that has popped into my head from time to time – and you’re the first person to give me a good answer on it.
Thank you for spending the time on answering my query.
Much appreciated.
Hi Baker,
I got tired trying to search your site for your thoughts on weak conscience Christians referred to in Romans 14 and 1Cor. 8 since I was unable to find a search window on you site. So, I decided to reply in this section to ask you a question.
Do you consider the weak conscience Christians Paul referred to in Romans 14 and 1Cor. 8 to be legalists practicing legalism? Over the years of my Christian life when I have heard fellow Christians call another Christian a legalist, it seem almost like 80 to 90 percent of the time they are a calling a weak conscience Christian a legalist. Would be nice if you would post a post on the topic of weak conscience Christians with respect to your definition of a legalist and legalism, along with a detailed definition of your definition of a legalist and legalism.
Thanks,
David Geminden
David,
Thanks for stopping by, and thanks for asking questions! I wish more people would challenge me, now and then. I don’t claim to know everything, except when I’m arguing with first graders
I don’t know why you couldn’t find it, but I did write a post that covered a couple of definitions, including my own thoughts. Here is a link to that post http://therecoveringlegalist.com/2011/01/15/why-be-a-legalist/.
Hope you stop by again. Let others know, too. Thanks!
1 Timothy 3:3 & Titus 1:7 uses G3943 which according to Thayers Lexicon essentially means does not drink to drunkeness.
1 Timothy 3:8 & Titus 2:3 uses G3361 + G4337 + G4183 which according to Thayers Lexicon essentially means to not be one who requires large amounts.
So, all 4 of these passages manifest the evidence that:
1) The wine used can cause drunkeness if consumed in large quantities.
2) It is ok for deacons and bishops to consume this type of wine, so long as they do so in moderation.
As you stated previously, it not the wine that is sinful but the lack of self control. Its the same as with a gun. The gun is not murderous, but the person without control that holds it.
Thanks for the comment, and thanks for stopping by.
Disappointed not to see any comments from Seventh-Day Adventists. Compensating, here’s one from a Mormon. I suppose my thoughts go somewhat to the weak conscience discussion, but from our point of view, more to self-mastery and ability to make and keep covenants. I think many Mormons fall prey to the legalistic trap based on social pressures. Not good.
Our health code, called “the word of wisdom” was originally given only as council to avoid unhealthy things to excess like “hot drinks” (later interpreted as coffee and tea, still later popularly interpreted as caffein and recently repudiated by church leadership), alcohol and tobacco. The WoW also suggests eating meat sparingly in winter or times of famine and eating lots of fruits and veggies in season. As is almost always the case when a homogeneous group of people become dedicated to a set of beliefs or ideologies, there is social pressure to codify them into easily identifiable standards upon which easy judgments can be made. And so it was with the WoW. That’s not a criticism of Mormons, but rather an observation of human nature. Despite the uninformed accusations that Mormons aren’t Christians, few go so far as to exclude us from a class called human. And so, we are subject to the same temptations and fallen nature of the rest of mankind.
But for those of us who try to live our religion at a level somewhere above social pressures, it is a simple matter. I made a covenant with God to live a certain standard. Despite strong worldly social pressures outside the Mormon circle, I am determined to live up to covenants I have made. It’s a test and it is self-imposed. Sometimes I think it is a silly test. Does it make those who break MY covenant evil or somehow less than me? Of course not! If I don’t run marathons am i less than those who do? Well, yes. I have less endurance, but that’s not a challenge I have taken up. What about others of my faith that fail to live by this code? Evil? Fallen? No, they have just failed a minor test meant to help us strengthen our self-mastery. By perfectly mastering one simple test of self-discipline I gain confidence and courage to take on greater, more difficult ones. Mormons also fast monthly for 24 hours. It’s a private ritual with multiple purposes. It helps us feel more humble, inviting the spirit when combined with prayer. It also strengthens one’s will. Hopefully, the making and keeping of covenants are a means of strengthening our ability to keep all of God’s commandments. Christ was pretty clear on the importance of keeping commandments.
I like to think of my life as a sort of Marine boot camp. Self-discipline, overcoming minor obstacles are a means of getting to higher levels of competency. If a marine fails the ropes course is he no longer a marine? No, he just keeps working on it till he does along with marksmanship, running miles with loaded packs, etc. the real test doesn’t come until real combat.
Similarly, scrupulously avoiding alcohol does not a Christian make, but it MIGHT help along the straight and narrow path. It is in the crucible of remaining non-judgmental, loving and charitable with others who do not embrace your beliefs or even socially accepted norms of courteous behavior that a Christian is judged by God and that is the judgment that matters. The rest is just boot camp.
I really appreciate you stopping by. I will add more comment when I have more time. But, again, thanks.
BTW, I forgot to thank you, Brother Baker, for your wonderful words of wisdom.
Mormons, like other Christians, must constantly fight against the temptation to act as the Pharisees and we / I fall short. While we accept Christ’s admonition to prove our faith by obedience to God’s commandments, we must never forget that salvation does not come through obedience. It is a free gift through Jesus Christ, our savior. After we do our best and inevitably fall short, faith in the goodness and grace of God makes up the huge remaining gap, regardless of how large it may be. I am thankful and comforted by that realization.
On the contary, with proper understanding, faith is a work of righteousness and our salvation, the earnest of the Spirit, which is Eternal Life, is through obedience. If we shall fall away, the Spirit is quenched, and so is our Life and Salvation. But, don’t misunderstand me. Our immortal salvation is solely by grace and that is the source of the earnest. But our present salvation, the Holy Spirit, the Eternal Life to which we must take current possession of, in oder to have Life within us, is through faith, a work of righteousness, and consistant obedience.
What many do not understand is the by faith we are raised to Life. This is the first ressurrection. And as Ezekiel 18:21-28 clearly explains,if a wicked man turns he will have Life, but if after becoming righteous and he turns back to his vomit, he will die. The wagesof sin is death regardless of who you are.
Interesting. I don’t exactly know if I correctly followed you, though. There might be a point in there with which I might disagree. But thanks for commenting. Maybe we’ll talk about it later.
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Interesting comments.
Sometimes the WHY of these things is more significant than the WHAT. Why we choose what we do, that kind of thing. Human nature being what it is, many believers linger where they know there’s the potential for carnal responses.
A balanced view of Scripture, a pure desire to please Christ in all things, common sense and good life experience together go a long way in dealing with legalism and so-called controversy in church life.
Thank you, Samuel, for taking the time to leave your own insightful AND interesting comment
Interesting that I would find this today! I just read Proverbs 23:29-35 this morning about the dangers of drinking wine. Although I will have a glass of wine or a bottle of Mike’s Hard Lime on occasion, I have not been intoxicated since college (I’m 55). Drinking alcohol is not a factor in my relationship with Christ because it has no hold on my heart. When I am stressed or lonely or sad, I am not tempted to reach for a drink rather than cry out to Him. (A cup of hot tea, maybe, but not alcohol.)
This is one the greatest things about the Christian faith! When we truly know the Lord and are filled with His Spirit, He is faithful to work with us individually. As long as we remain surrendered and seeking His will, He guides us to make choices that please Him and He supplies the enabling ability to do so.
To overindulge in alcoholic beverages is sinful behavior. Period. To have a glass of wine with dinner may or may not be, depending on your own conviction before the Lord. “He who knows the right thing to do, and does not do it, to him it is sin.”
To our Mormon friend…Jesus did not die to “fill the gap” when our best behavior does not meet His perfect standard. All our self-generated righteousness is “as filthy rags” in God’s eyes. We must come to Him empty-handed, with no so-called goodness to offer Him. And we are to continue to walk this way through life – doing what pleases Him out of sheer love and gratefulness that HIS righteousness has been credited to our account. This truth is the Gospel, the essence of the Christian faith.
Thank you, Renee. I appreciate your input.